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brucifer
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1#
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Rank:none
Score:324
Posts:324
From: USA 
Registered:03/19/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:06/25/2006 02:40:49)
Well, I installed #122 mains up from the stock #118s. Big difference in the mid to upper throttle openings. Throttle response is greatly improved. Still a tad lean at wide open. Clutch seems to be slipping a bit at WOT now as well. Idle quality seems to be fine. Bruce
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Bruce
'04 Buell XB12S Lightning '02 Yamaha FZ1 '01 XR650R '75 XL350 '84 XL600R '84 TT600 '78 XT500
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martinfan30
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2#
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Rank:none
Score:46
Posts:46
Registered:09/25/2005
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(Date Posted:06/28/2006 07:40:09)
hey brucifer! long time no talk(from any one!). are your intake boots cracked? how about tight intake valves? im sure youve thought of this, but just thought id chime in. anyhow looking forward to hearing your progress on your 600. later.
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brucifer
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3#
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Rank:none
Score:324
Posts:324
From: USA
Registered:03/19/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:06/30/2006 02:17:59)
Hey Martinfan, hows everything? Intake boots are fine. Haven't checked the valves yet but that's on my list.
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Bruce
'04 Buell XB12S Lightning '02 Yamaha FZ1 '01 XR650R '75 XL350 '84 XL600R '84 TT600 '78 XT500
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rsstom
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4#
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Rank:none
Score:3
Posts:3
Registered:08/05/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:08/08/2006 02:23:49)
The XR has those adjustable needles. They're pretty handy. Don't recall how much they were though?
Are you going to use a big-bore?
I have an 87 XL600 and considered it.
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brucifer
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5#
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Rank:none
Score:324
Posts:324
From: USA
Registered:03/19/2005
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(Date Posted:08/08/2006 15:24:16)
I didn't even think about the XR needles. I'll have to look into those. Yes I'm going for a big bore kit. Not sure what size yet. Haven't been playing around with the XL lately as I've been busy on the TT600. Bruce.
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Bruce
'04 Buell XB12S Lightning '02 Yamaha FZ1 '01 XR650R '75 XL350 '84 XL600R '84 TT600 '78 XT500
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LandSharkGT
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6#
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Rank:none
Score:114
Posts:114
Registered:09/12/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:09/16/2006 00:48:50)
Thanx for the heads up on the mods for the XL600R!!!!!
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brucifer
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7#
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Rank:none
Score:324
Posts:324
From: USA
Registered:03/19/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:02/26/2007 05:13:30)
Well, haven't been here for a while. Here's an update on the 'ol XL. Sunday I was just gonna install some new clutch plates and a new oil pump but it turned out not to be that easy. As I was loosening the clutch pack bolts I noticed the entire basket was moving, not in and out but up and down as well as side to side. Uh-Oh. Closer inspection revealed a bad bearing on the transmission shaft. Of course it's on the inside of the main cases. Out came the engine. Well, several weeks ago I bought a complete bottom end off ebay and it seems to be a tight usable unit. Also bought a 1mm over Wiseco 11-1 piston off ebay. Good to go there. Took the head to work to clean and glass bead and it's cracked between one exhaust valve and the plug hole. I already had a head here (you guessed it) I bought off ebay that will work just fine. The combustion chamber is in very nice shape. I'm also going to install a Megacycle cam and the correct springs (also ebay items) during this build. Unfortunately the head I"ll be using has smaller valves than the cracked one. I thought they all had the same size valves but maybe this one is a very early one or something. At any rate, I"ll be doing some port work on it. This bike has no choice than to make way more power than it had. Given everything I found wrong with it, it's hard to believe it ran as good as it did. Bruce
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Bruce
'04 Buell XB12S Lightning '02 Yamaha FZ1 '01 XR650R '75 XL350 '84 XL600R '84 TT600 '78 XT500
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swytak
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8#
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Rank:none
Score:24
Posts:24
From: USA
Registered:09/13/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/05/2007 03:31:00)
Thanks for the update. How many miles does the bike have?
I have a 1983 I bought in November 06 which had 3128 miles on it.
The valve train has sort of a wine to it. Different from the 1980 that I had. Is that normal. My previous owner said he changed the oil every 500 mi. (20 w 50 castrol synthetic), so I doubt there's any wear on the engine. It does not smoke and runs strong.
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brucifer
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9#
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Rank:none
Score:324
Posts:324
From: USA
Registered:03/19/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/05/2007 16:19:50)
Wow Swytak, that thing's gorgeous! Sounds and looks like that bike has been well taken care of. My bike isn't even on the same continent as far as looks as your bike. You need to hang on to that one. The whine you hear is common to every '80s model XL600 I've heard run. I believe it emanates from the crank,clutch,balancer gears. I personally like that sound.
My bike has almost 23000 miles on it. It actually came from your neck of the woods and was used as a commuter. I shouldn't be surprised the head was cracked as it was probably routinely run at 75-80 mph or more for long periods of time. Incidently, I figured out the head I'm using is from an '84-'85 RFVC XR500. That explains the smaller valves. Something I didn't notice until I was looking at the heads side by side is the combustion chamber volume is smaller on the 500. I'm having the chamber machined out to the same specs as the 600. If I didn't I'd have WAY to much compression with th 11-1 piston. Bruce
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Bruce
'04 Buell XB12S Lightning '02 Yamaha FZ1 '01 XR650R '75 XL350 '84 XL600R '84 TT600 '78 XT500
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swytak
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10#
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Rank:none
Score:24
Posts:24
From: USA
Registered:09/13/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/06/2007 20:43:47)
The pictures are from previous owner. It looked like that when I bought it 11/07 with 3128 miles on it. I've since put Avon gripster tires on it since I ride it mostly on street.
On Advrider a gentleman posted that he replaced the oil feed line with 1/8" tubing and it greatly reduced wear to valvetrain. I tried to find bigger tubing to follow suit but could not figure it out without and was too timid to put in bigger fittings to side case and cylinder head. Read post here:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188797&page=8
I did drill out the bolts which passed through the tubing at the ends. Drilled out to full 1/8 inch so they did not pinch off oil flow. I found that the upper oil bolt which went thru banjo fitting was substantially smaller diameter than 1/8" At the nut end of the bolt, I also drilled the hole out to 1/8" and drilled thru the backside of the hole to other side with 1/16" hole, so as to facilitate oil flow from tube into the bolt into the head ( and same with the bolt going into the side crank cover.
I'm in SoCal so cold temps really not a big problem here. Also, I run 20-50 now and next oil change soon 15 - 50 full synthetic oil.
I do love how it runs, and I can put both feet on the ground at stops. I wear 30 - 31 " inseam. The new XRL's are too high for me.
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brucifer
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11#
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Rank:none
Score:324
Posts:324
From: USA
Registered:03/19/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/15/2007 01:56:49)
Finally moving forward on the build. Installed new oil pump and corresponding o-rings, clutch frictions, cam chain and piston/cylinder assembly on the ebay bottom end. Just waiting for the head to get back from our local race engine builder/machinists shop. He's doing a multi-angle valve job using new Kibblewhite valves. Doing some port work as well. Hopefully he'll have it done by this weekend. Once I get the engine assembled, I'll be taking it to him to degree in the cam. Bruce
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Bruce
'04 Buell XB12S Lightning '02 Yamaha FZ1 '01 XR650R '75 XL350 '84 XL600R '84 TT600 '78 XT500
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brucifer
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12#
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Rank:none
Score:324
Posts:324
From: USA
Registered:03/19/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/22/2007 02:19:20)
Got the bike together today. Took it for a shake down ride and...... It runs great! Happy Happy Joy Joy! The ebay bottom end performs perfect! The engine has excellent throttle response,excellerates through the gears quicker and has substantially more on top. Of course I didn't REALLY hammer on it as it must have a break in period. Gonna readjust the valves after she cools down and go for another ride! Bruce
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Bruce
'04 Buell XB12S Lightning '02 Yamaha FZ1 '01 XR650R '75 XL350 '84 XL600R '84 TT600 '78 XT500
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Helmet_Hair
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13#
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Rank:none
Score:206
Posts:206
Registered:09/27/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/29/2007 04:38:41)
Excellent! What did you have it bored out to? Did you ride the bike or start it before the cam was degree'd?
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brucifer
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14#
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Rank:none
Score:324
Posts:324
From: USA
Registered:03/19/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/29/2007 05:08:54)
Hey Helmet_hair! I just bored it 1mm (0.040) over. Didn't want to go too much as these have a bit of a cooling problem anyway. So now it displaces a true 600cc. Stock is 589cc. Interestingly enough we didn't machine out the combustion chamber. One would have thought that my compression ratio would have been very high with the piston designed to have 11-1 with the 600 head. It isn't. Our calculations have it right at 10.2-1. Even if I would have had zero deck (piston flush with top of cylinder) it still only calculated to 10.7-1. Go figure. I assembled the engine then took it by itself to the guy to degree the cam. Bruce
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Bruce
'04 Buell XB12S Lightning '02 Yamaha FZ1 '01 XR650R '75 XL350 '84 XL600R '84 TT600 '78 XT500
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Helmet_Hair
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15#
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Rank:none
Score:206
Posts:206
Registered:09/27/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/29/2007 22:51:37)
dumb question here, but does one need to degree an old (stock) camshaft when a new piston (like a Wiseco replacement) is introduced? I'll be sending my cylinder and new piston out for bore/hone and want to make sure when I slap it all back together that I won't have any expesive issues. BTW, the new piston has a similar crown to stock.
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brucifer
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16#
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Rank:none
Score:324
Posts:324
From: USA
Registered:03/19/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/30/2007 03:54:58)
Not a dumb question at all. You do not need to degree your old stock cam. You really only need to degree in performance camshafts. You want the numbers to coincide with the numbers on the cam spec. card so the cam will perform as the manufacturer intended. Also you can only degree it in if you have a slotted cam sprocket (as in my case) or multiple bolt holes. Bruce
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Bruce
'04 Buell XB12S Lightning '02 Yamaha FZ1 '01 XR650R '75 XL350 '84 XL600R '84 TT600 '78 XT500
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brucifer
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17#
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Rank:none
Score:324
Posts:324
From: USA
Registered:03/19/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:05/12/2007 17:26:27)
Update. The ebay bottom end has a leak at the main case mating surface in the front where the balancer spins. So yesterday I pulled the engine and proceded to take apart everything I just assembled. Upon removing the rocker cover I noticed one of the exhaust lobes and rockers had begun to gall and eat itself. Dammit!! Well, under the recommendation of my machinest guy, I'm sending the entire rocker assembly and camshaft to Megacycle for repairs and to see if they can come up with why that happened. Everything else looks great including the inside of the bottom end. I should have split the cases and installed new gaskets beforehand but I took a gamble and lost. Won't do that again. Oh well, on the bright side, at least I caught this cam situation before it sent a load of scrap metal through the engine! Bruce
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Bruce
'04 Buell XB12S Lightning '02 Yamaha FZ1 '01 XR650R '75 XL350 '84 XL600R '84 TT600 '78 XT500
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chopfather
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18#
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Rank:none
Score:40
Posts:40
Registered:11/05/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:05/13/2007 05:05:07)
i hate to hear that, it sounded like everything was going great too. Like you said, at least you caught it early before it damaged alot more. Good luck and keep us posted.
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swytak
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19#
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Rank:none
Score:24
Posts:24
From: USA
Registered:09/13/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:05/16/2007 00:16:56)
Here is URL to comments posted by a 1984 XRL owner regarding cam oiling problem and solution
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51126&highlight=flow+head
The content is cut and pasted below. I just noticed the post below had noted the different diameters of the banjo bolt holes.
from Tim McKittrick:
I had a lot of problems with cams and rockers on my XL600R motor (which has the same oiling system) - to the tune of five sets before I figured it out. You may have had a high speed oiling problem but my trouble was all start-up related. At lower temperatures (below 50 F) there is insufficent oil flow to the head through the itty-bitty oil pip, leading to gallling. Once the engine produces a little heat and thins the oil everything is just dandy. The result is your engine runs for a few minutes with little or no oil to the head every time you start it up. Much has been written about worn oil pumps and high flow aftermarket replacement pumps, but there is a better way. I replaced the line to the head with a piece of Aeroquip braided hose and a few 1/8" NPT fitttings into the case and head and ran the bike another 35,000 miles with nary a problem- and it only required valve adjustment once. And this was using a high lift cam without hardened rockers
I only deduced the cause of the failures after a local aircraft mechanic told me about a similar problem with Lycoming airplane engines- unless properly pre-heated in the winter these engines would gall their cams in exactly the same way as my Honda, only it cost a LOT more to fix. After modifying my motor I began ice racing it (in temps down to -20F) both to prove my alteration was valid and to have a way to play with bikes in the winter.
I think the oiling to the head is insufficent on all of the Honda RFVC engines and I would not run one without making the change. I've modified three engines and none of them have had a subsquent cam or rocker problem. It's relatively cheap and easy to do, and you will never have to worry about the top end ever again.
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swytak
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20#
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Rank:none
Score:24
Posts:24
From: USA
Registered:09/13/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:05/16/2007 00:18:46)
Somewhere I recall seeing that the newer (1986?) XL had different cam oiling holes in the camshaft which had effect of reducing cam follower wear.
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brucifer
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21#
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Rank:none
Score:324
Posts:324
From: USA
Registered:03/19/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:06/07/2007 16:48:08)
Hey everyone. Well the XL project took a completely different turn. I found a cobbled together '88 XR600 frame with a '93 XR650L engine,front end,rear end and wiring harness. Picked it up for dirt. It also is equiped with a 41mm Mikuni flat slide carb. Now I have a 1984 XL 600 with an electric start '93 XR650L powerplant! I swapped over the front end as well. I had to get kind of creative with the wiring harness but it came out nice. The only cutting I had to do was the tail light wires. They had different style plugs but are the same color code. Also the stock battery couldn't be used so I did some research and came up with a Yamaha WR450 battery that resides inside the stock air box that isn't used now. This swap would not have been possible without the Mikuni. The stock carburetor would not fit between the engine and frame. Neither would a stock XR600 carb. I'm using a clamp on style sock air filter. All in all I'm very happy. Which brings us to the XL600 engine. It is for sale now. I have split the cases and installed a new main gasket. The cylinder is back on but that is where I stopped. As you all know all the top end stuff is new. This top end had 200 miles on it when I pulled it back down to reseal the main cases. I have a complete gasket kit that goes with it as well as the carbs. To rehash what the top end has: 0.040 over Wiseco piston 10.2-1 compression,Megacycle cam,hardfaced rockers[were sent to Megacycle and repaired],slotted cam sprocket,performance valve springs,new Kibblewhite XR600 valves,RFVC XR500 cylinder head with mild port pocket clean up,new Honda cam chain. The bottom end has a new Honda oil pump and Honda clutch plates [frictions only]. You just need to finish putting this thing back together. It ran great before I pulled it apart to fix the main case leak. I have about $1000.00 in this thing. Make me an offer. Bruce
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Bruce
'04 Buell XB12S Lightning '02 Yamaha FZ1 '01 XR650R '75 XL350 '84 XL600R '84 TT600 '78 XT500
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brucifer
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22#
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Rank:none
Score:324
Posts:324
From: USA
Registered:03/19/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:09/30/2007 16:09:45)
Well now I'm thinking about putting the XL engine back in. The 650L engine has more low RPM torque but the 600 makes more power everywhere else. Since I don't ride this bike off road the 600 engine makes more sense. We'll see what I think next week! lol Bruce
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Bruce
'04 Buell XB12S Lightning '02 Yamaha FZ1 '01 XR650R '75 XL350 '84 XL600R '84 TT600 '78 XT500
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Motosportman
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23#
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Rank:none
Score:968
Posts:968
Registered:03/29/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:10/09/2007 21:42:40)
Interesting article on the insufficient oil supply ot the top end via the small stock lines. Why would Honda engineer it like that? to fail? guess it keeps you buying parts or new bikes.
On the lighter side I bout a 86 XL600 last night, has 13K on it and runs sweet, seems to be rejetted and has a supertrapp on it.
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2005 XR650L, 2004 XR250R, 1974 XL350, 1972 XL250, 1975 XL175, 1975 XL-125 and 2 woods playbikes, 1973 XL250, 1975 XL350. 1972 TS-125J
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brucifer
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24#
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Rank:none
Score:324
Posts:324
From: USA
Registered:03/19/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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RE:XL600R
(Date Posted:05/03/2008 16:57:59)
Hey all! Well, here's where I'm at now. I installed the dual carb top end on the XR650L bottem end. Bored another XL600 barrel I had and mated it to the 650L bottom end to net 670 ccs! Reinstalled the RFVC 500 head and Megacycle repaired cam and rockers. This thing friggin' rips! The only problem now is the starter will NOT spin the engine over against the compression, which is about 11-1 now. It detonates too when you get on it hard. I think I'm gonna try and find another dual carb 600 head to drop the compression some. Also, I'm looking into installing a kick starter on this thing. By the way, I documented this last build over on Thumpertalk if anyone is interested. Bruce
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Bruce
'04 Buell XB12S Lightning '02 Yamaha FZ1 '01 XR650R '75 XL350 '84 XL600R '84 TT600 '78 XT500
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swytak
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25#
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Rank:none
Score:24
Posts:24
From: USA
Registered:09/13/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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RE:XL600R - top end oiling.
(Date Posted:05/27/2008 11:56:03)
I drilled out (to 1/8" if I remember right) the 2 banjo bolts holding the oil pipe/tube/line to head and crankcase.
The upper banjo bolt seemed to be more restrictive. than the actual pipe. I also drilled an additional 1/16" holed into the bolt perpendicular to the axis of the bolt, to facilitate oil exit to the tube. I figured this would increase oil flow a little.
Tim McKittrick thumpertalk or advirider, replaced his line with 1/8 " tube. That project was too much for me.
Some have replaced the entire line with bigger hose but that was to complicated for me.
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brucifer
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26#
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Rank:none
Score:324
Posts:324
From: USA
Registered:03/19/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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RE:XL600R
(Date Posted:05/31/2008 09:01:56)
Well, after inspecting where the kickstart idler gear goes, on the right end of the countershaft, this isn't doable without splitting the cases and replacing it with an XR or XL600 shaft. The end isn't machined down to the gear bushing size, which wouldn't be a problem because I could get a bushing machined to the proper size, but it isn't drilled for oil pressure either. So, for now anyway, I'm shelving this project.
On a different note, I purchased a 2000 XR600 that is CA. plated and has a bunch of aftermarket parts on it but the engine is locked up. The PO ran it out of oil. Evidently he cracked a case when he dropped it while unloading from his truck and didn't realize it until the bike stopped running on his last ride. It's supposed to be here next weekend. Just what I need......another project! LOL Bruce
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Bruce
'04 Buell XB12S Lightning '02 Yamaha FZ1 '01 XR650R '75 XL350 '84 XL600R '84 TT600 '78 XT500
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brucifer
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27#
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Rank:none
Score:324
Posts:324
From: USA
Registered:03/19/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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RE:XL600R
(Date Posted:08/22/2009 11:09:57)
Hey everyone! I'm probably going to do a kickstart install on this thing this winter. I'm also going to see if I can somehow mount a larger battery somewhere. Regarding the plated XR600, I used the ebay XL600 bottom end and the XR600 top for its powerplant. I stripped it down to the frame, repainted it, greased and lubed everything and put it back together. It turned out very nice. Rode it for awhile, then sold it to my neighbor. He's lovin' it. Here's what it looked like when I finished it. 
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Bruce
'04 Buell XB12S Lightning '02 Yamaha FZ1 '01 XR650R '75 XL350 '84 XL600R '84 TT600 '78 XT500
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bromance
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28#
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From: USA
Registered:11/03/2009
Time spent: 0 hours
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Re:XL600R
(Date Posted:11/03/2009 19:46:37)
just got a 83 rfvc xl600. the thing is seemingly ready to rip. I ran it up and down the street once. The bike takes thirty minutes to start. tried a few starting techniques. when it does start it won't idle. the bike is completely stock. I'm looking for some ideas. it sounds like you guys know whats up. It has good spark. carbs are clean and up to stock spec. stock air filter. cdi seems to work. new gas and fuel flows fast. air screw is at stock setting. decompressor is adjusted. no battery is this the start prob? weak stator? bad cdi? would really appreciate some tips. thanks
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