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Welcome to The Honda XL Board!

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Title: TL250 vs TL125
  
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Jeephoto
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(Date Posted:02/19/2005 7:57 AM)

Other than the obvious engine size and cosmetics, what are the differences in the TL250 vs. the TL125?I like my little TL125; mostly because it is the first bike I've had in almost 20 years and my first trials bike. But I bought it just because it was local, I could afford it and I ALWAYS wanted a trials bike. However, as I learn more about the Honda trials bikes, I sure do like the TL250 and I would love a little more power. Furthermore, I always associated trials bikes with 250cc, like the Montesa's and Bultaco's.Would there be a logical reason to acquire a TL250, even though I have a TL125?Would I really see much difference?My 125 is a former competitor so it is not "pretty", but she runs and it is a blast to ride. I don't compete, so accuracy and performance is not that important to me. I just love plunking around the field and minor trail riding. Besides, I've seen several really nice looking TL250's for sale on eBay. Since I know I like riding a trials bike, I wouldn't be concerned with spending the bucks on a nice one.So, what are the differences of the TL250 vs. the TL125? And whatadvantages or benefitswould there be to owning either or both?

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1975 Honda XL250
2003 Honda CRF230F

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bob__
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(Date Posted:02/19/2005 9:27 AM)

I have a 250, never ridden it, never had a 125--I can vouch for the money pitted-ness of the 250--odd engine--I think it differs more from the XL250 than the 125 does from the XL125--parts to make one correct are way pricey--

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ratbikes and bull terriers
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davidch
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(Date Posted:02/22/2005 8:50 AM)

The 250 has:

about 30 more pounds

33 mm forks rather than 31

sturdier triple clamps (note that Honda made an optional fork brace for the 125-evidence of sloppiness here)

a more trials-like steering geometry (125 has same triple clamps as SL series)

an aluminum fuel tank (they may dent and they may leak but they never rust)

a lighting coil (only TL125S models came with one)

a factory installed chain tensioner

a sturdier swing arm with proper bushings, not rubber flexy things

shocks with 11mm shafts, not 8

thicker spokes

a detachable skid plate

no need to fold the right peg to kickstart

about 3 inches more wheelbase (52 vs 49 inches)

Sammy Miller design. 'Nuff said.

As to the tl250 engine being greatly different than its XL brothers, I think not. Gears are mostly different, but they last forever at the output mandated by its 24mm carb. Cylinder head has smaller ports than XL. Pistons, cams, rockers, valves, gaskets same as XL.. Crank has the larger main bearings common to 350s and later model 250s.

Too heavy and unresponsive for most people to do much in the way of trials with them, but the TL250 makes an outstanding trail bike, provided you're not in a hurry.

Cosmetics, notably side panels, impossible to find or very expensive. But as side panels are functionless, who cares?

BJ racing has most everything else.

Finally, remember what trials great Mick Andrews said (circa 1973) when asked about the latest crop of 125cc trials bikes: "I don't like mini-bikes."

 

Murray Gray
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(Date Posted:02/22/2005 6:00 PM)

I only rode a TL125 once, the first bike after a 25 year lull (I couldn't even stand up on the pegs...) I have been told that the frame geometry of the 125 is more suited to Trials that the 250 (I have read that Honda didn't think it could sell enough "trials-only" 250's, so they stretched out the front end to make it more stable on trails at speed and still only made them for two years, while most of the "works" bikes went to the crusher). I don't see to many 250's in AHRMA or STRA Vintage, but I do see a LOT of 125's...and with the TMI down for repairs, it looks like I will be campaigning the TL250 this year...

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Murray Gray
'76 XL330, TMI250, '87 TLR200

Hacksawed
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(Date Posted:02/23/2005 4:04 AM)

Reply to : Murray Gray

I have been told that the frame geometry of the 125 is more suited to Trials that the 250 .

 On this point, I believe Mr Gray's information to be correct. 

I own both the TL250 (2) and TL125 (2).  One of each was purchased new by me off the showroom floor.  In my opinion the TL250 is the best looking single Honda ever produced. (Next favorite is my '72 XL250 then my GB500) But again I have to agree with Mr Gray in that Honda never meant for the TL250 to be a real trials bike. It's longer wheel base and steering head angle (not the trees) suit it more to a trail bike.  There's a good reason you see more TL125s on the loop.  Take a look at Sammy Miller's catalog and you'll see which of  TLs he's prouder of.

I think it's hard for dual sporters to focus on a single purpose bike and the answer to Jeeps question isn't all that easy to answer.  In my opinion if he wants to compete in trials on a Honda, the TL125 (more on that later) would be the better choice especially if he's just starting out. If he wants a very good looking bike that's also a fair trail bike, he might be happier with the 250.  He's probably noticed already that the TL125's suspension is a little too soft for a good trail bike, as would be any good trials bike.

Now if you want to use a TL125 for trials, it doesn't have to stay a "mini bike".  I've ridden for years with a friend who has managed to squeeze almost 200CCs into his TL125's frame and let me tell you with him on it, it will go places the average rider would never think about going on two wheels.  One of my 125s has a 150 kit in it along with all the current Sammy Miller goddies and I've put it up against most of the other vintage trialers and it'll hold it's own except for the more difficult sections.  You'll find that the more difficult a section is the more "punch" you'll need from the bike. Most novice riders never come up to places they need anymore "punch" than a stock TL125 can give them. They're money is better spent in fitting better rear shocks and a smaller CS sprocket (from stock) and slowing the bike down.  As their skills increase and the sections get harder they'll find they will need more "punch" out of the engine and there's plently of "off the shelf" setups out there to choose from.

Please keep in mind that this is all just my opinion.  I have met and ridden against a couple of very good trials riders on TL250s.  But they are the exception, not the rule.

For looks: TL250

For vintage trials: and you want a non British 4-stroke, hop up a TL125.

For looks and a fair handling trail bike: a properly set up TL250

hacksawed

 

Hacksawed
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(Date Posted:02/23/2005 7:39 AM)

After reading my post I realize that I was responding more to davidch's post than to Jeeps. 

Sorry for that, old age setting in.

Some of the differences I find in the two bikes are:

Less power from the 125 but I feel the 125s power is more trackable.

The 250 feels top heavy compaired to the 125.

I can turn the 125 sharper than the 250.

The 250's front wheel tends to  "wash out" on down hills and "plow" in sharp turns compared to the 125.

The 250 seems 'fatter' in the mid section.

There are more accesories/reproductions available for the 125.

So far, I've never found a hill I can climb with the 250 I can't climb with my 125.

I like the 125's seat better for the ride between sections and back to the truck.

Jeep, do you feel a big difference between the handling (not factoring in power) of your XL and your TL? 

Bikes seem to "fit" people differently.  Some will think the TL250  the easiest handling bike they have ever ridden, others will think it's a dog.  Your best bet is to find somebody to lend you a TL250 for the weekend and see how it "fits".  What part of the country do you live in?

All that said, you can never have too many bikes, period.

hacksawed

 

 

 

Jeephoto
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(Date Posted:02/28/2005 11:49 AM)

Reply to : Hacksawed

After reading my post I realize that I was responding more to davidch's post than to Jeeps.Sorry for that, old age setting in.Some of the differences Ifind in the two bikes are:Less power from the 125 but I feel the 125s power is more trackable.The 250 feels top heavy compaired to the 125.I can turn the 125 sharper than the 250.The 250's front wheel tends to "wash out" on down hills and "plow" in sharp turns compared to the 125.The 250 seems 'fatter' in the mid section.There are moreaccesories/reproductions available for the 125.So far, I've never found a hill I can climb with the 250 I can't climb with my 125.I like the 125's seat better for the ride between sections and back to the truck.Jeep, do you feel a big difference between the handling (no

 

Sorry I missed getting back to this post until now. Many, many thanks for all your responses.

I live in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area of Texas. Unfortunately, I haven't gotten my "new" XL250 running yet, so I have no comparisons of 125/250.

I bought the TL125 as a trail bike to ride with my kids, and because I've always been interested in trials and always wanted a trials bike. The 125 is fun to ride and I putt along OK on the trails. The suspension is really soft, so I have to take it very easy following the boys on their CRF. The 125 has incredibly low gearing and extremely tight steering. I like to ride around in tight trees, winding around them at slow speeds. And I like to ride up small, steep hills and down steep ditches. I practice balancing some, too. I stink at riding trials and I will probably never compete, so that is not an issue. I just like to tackle hills and ditches at slow speeds. I sometimes relate my little 125 to a mountain bike with an engine. It does feel like a mini-bike sometimes and I'm not a big guy.

I, too, like the look of the 250 and I'm thinking I would like to have one as a companion to my XL250. I see some beautiful TL250's on eBay sometimes. I was just wondering if it would be worth my while to own both, or either. And it sounds like the 250 might be what I should have gotten in the first place.

According to "the boss", Mrs. Jeep, I'll probably have to sell the 125 before I can get a 250.

--------------------------------------------------------------
1975 Honda XL250
2003 Honda CRF230F

Swiss
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