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ricortes
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1#
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Rank:none
Score:408
Posts:408
Registered:05/01/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:01/25/2007 20:21:10)
Unless you are planning on keeping it legal for vintage racing you may want to consider buying one of these:
LIFAN on eBay
The price has dropped by about half since I got mine. Almost low enough where I would consider getting a spare. Mine was the old all silver vs. black type. They put out enough HP that I immediately bought new brakes for my SL. I am a notorious wussy rider but you get the idea. Hills that I could barely putt up in low gear I can now accelerate to the point of not being able to corner.
They've got a couple of other engines listed that I may have to give a try depending on how high the bidding goes. Something like a 100XR/SL type that starts at ~$100 and I could use an engine for a monkey bike and a ~1964 Honda 90.
Rick
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Swiss
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2#
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From: USA 
Registered:03/26/2004
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(Date Posted:02/15/2007 16:40:41)
Took a quick look and didn't see any bore kits on ebay for 165cc. That is going pretty big. Regardless, if you want to get any strong revs out of 165cc it would be good to use at a minimum the later XL125 head and valves, or even work on fitting one of the XR200 heads? The real limitation for the smaller engines is the flow limit of the 2-v heads.
Swiss
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frenfroe
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3#
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Rank:none
Score:5
Posts:5
Registered:12/17/2006
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(Date Posted:02/18/2007 05:46:55)
I built a TL with the 1st overbore XR200 piston. Had to cut the cases and shorten the cylinder. Used a Powroll hi-comp piston I found on ebay. After I worked out the jetting it pulled very strong, night and day compared to the 122cc original. It ended up a little over 165cc. I sheared several flywheel keys from the hi compression detonation I ended up with. I learned to use straight VP12 and it never caused another problem. The shaft was clean and lapped to precise fit, just too much compression.
The motor had excellent throttle response, pulled like a tractor down low, and reved out short of stock. It stalled easy though in idle turns, had to ride the clutch a lot to keep it running just off idle, maybe the resistance due to high compression?
Be cautious with the 165 kit, calculate your compression, check valve clearances at TDC, lap the flywheel, tighten the fylwheel bolt good!
The kit on ebay is a good price considering what it'd take to put all the parts together, what's the quality though?
I've heard the 150cc kits only have a mm or 1.5 mm sleeve thickness at the base, way too thin for me. If you are building a 150cc use the 750 liner & bore your outer to fit.
Frank
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Johnnymoto
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4#
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Registered:11/27/2006
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(Date Posted:02/20/2007 08:00:39)
Reply to : frenfroe
Sorry check the reply below.
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Take care of your knees, you"ll miss them when their gone.
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Johnnymoto
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5#
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Score:21
Posts:21
Registered:11/27/2006
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(Date Posted:02/20/2007 08:13:51)
Thanks for all the input fellows. I have come across a standard honda 750 k2 piston and rings on ebay and my friend is going to order a cb750- sleeve and we're going to use that as a starting point. The wrist pins are the same at 15mm , we will have to do alittle head work to match the 60mm width compared to the 56mm or so for the 125 piston and maybe a bigger base gasket. I looked at the TL125 site over in the UK and got some good pointers there also. If you think of anything else let me know because we are shooting for the hip on this one. I'm keeping up with all the details and will post them on my website at -//johnnymoto.tripod.com - It may be a little while but I hope to post it soon. Thanks for the tips. I'll keep you posted.
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Take care of your knees, you"ll miss them when their gone.
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generatorshovel
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6#
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Rank:none
Score:107
Posts:107
Registered:02/17/2005
Time spent: 7212 hours
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(Date Posted:02/27/2007 11:07:15)
"or even work on fitting one of the XR200 heads"
I've been down this track , the problem I encounted was the 22cc combustion chamber volume of the XR200 head, as opposed to the 11cc 125 volume, no problem if you have access to a tig welder.
I've just started my rather ambitious 2008 project (LSR 175cc class) , grafting #4 cylinder (resleeved)/ head / conrod from a 1999 FZR600 , a 2003 R6 67mm piston (crank mods needed to make room for the wider 'rod bigend)
I plan on using a Gates belt drive for the DOHC setup.
I'ts no longer a vertical single, but a "laydown" style engine, as in CT110 , and sports 161cc capacity (possibly 173cc using a 2007 R6 piston?)
Tiny
The Aussie with too much spare time, and too little money
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It CAN be done
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KirkN
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7#
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Rank:none
Score:139
Posts:139
Registered:03/08/2007
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(Date Posted:03/08/2007 21:48:29)
Not to hijack the thread, but do I understand that that LIFAN motor will fit in an SL100 or SL125 chassis? Man, if so, I have to really consider that. My old SL100 is just flat tired out, and I was looking to hot-rod it to make it a little more flexible for me.
That LIFAN deal would really be great - a ready-to-go 200cc upgrade for cheap!
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Marblesmotors
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8#
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Rank:none
Score:2
Posts:2
Registered:03/09/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/09/2007 16:33:57)
There have been a few of the 150cc big bore kits around for the SL125s for years, but they only come up for sale every once in a blue moon. I have one left and not sure if I'm ready to sell it or not, but I would at least entertain the idea. I had been saving it for a project, but not sure if I'll ever get to it or not.
Contact me here
Marblesmotors.com
http://marblesmotors.com/partsforsalesl100125.htm
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Z50"s, SL70"s, SL100"s, SL125"s, SL175"s, SL350"s, XL350, NSR50R, NSR250R, CB400F, CBX, CL175 and one lone Harley
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KirkN
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9#
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Rank:none
Score:139
Posts:139
Registered:03/08/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/25/2007 18:03:49)
Hey, Johnnymoto, any luck on your SL125? I checked your website, but nothing new.
I, too, am going to build a hot-rod 125. Check out the XL board http://www.oldrice.com/xl_page.htm for all kinds of reprint articles about 125 hop-ups from back in the day. No mention of the CB750 trick, though.
It looks like the hot ticket will be to use an XL125 head, though, for bigger bore builds, as they came with bigger valves than the SL100 / SL125 heads.
Good luck, keep us posted!
Kirk
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KirkN
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10#
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Rank:none
Score:139
Posts:139
Registered:03/08/2007
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(Date Posted:05/08/2007 00:14:39)
Woo Hoo! Just won a 150cc big-bore kit from ebay. Got the big bore, got the head, just need a cam and maybe some valve springs and my little project should be good to go!
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Johnnymoto
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11#
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Rank:none
Score:21
Posts:21
Registered:11/27/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:05/10/2007 22:27:46)
Reply to : KirkN
Woo Hoo! Just won a 150cc big-bore kit from ebay. Got the big bore, got the head, just need a cam and maybe some valve springs and my little project should be good to go!
I've heard a cam will jazz up the project,also. I picked up a 150 cc kit on ebay too, along with some stock 750 pistons and rings. I'm going with the honda 750 stuff on the first project, then the ebay 150 kit. My friend has an old oven at his shop so we put the stock cylinder in there and cranked it up. In about 30 minutes the stock sleeve dropped out, so now we're ready to install the new sleeve. Keep the help coming. I will keep you posted. Thanks moto
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Take care of your knees, you"ll miss them when their gone.
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KirkN
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12#
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Rank:none
Score:139
Posts:139
Registered:03/08/2007
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(Date Posted:05/11/2007 18:41:13)
Hey, Johnny,
Now THAT is an outstanding tip! I was wondering how I was going to go about getting the old sleeve out. You've just saved me a bunch of work. Thanks! We have a press at my work, so I was intending to just press it out, cold. How hot did you have to go? I'm thinking of just using the ol' kitchen oven some Saturday when my wife's out shopping... :-)
Aren't you afraid of distorting the cylinder, though? Although, I guess with just heating up the cylinder, with the idea of replacing the sleeve, I guess it doesn't matter.
Next question - what should the interference between the cylinder and the new sleeve be? If I take the bare cylinder and the new sleeve to the machinist, he's going to want to know what the fit should be. Any idea? 0.001" interference fit? size-to-size? Is it written down in a manual somewhere?
Good luck with both your projects. I was planning to go the CB750 parts route, but the kit popped up on ebay, and I made an impulse buy. I probably could have got the 750 components cheaper than what I paid for the kit, though. Live and learn.
I have a second XL100, so maybe I could do the CB750 route yet, so I could compare and contrast! :-)
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Johnnymoto
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13#
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Rank:none
Score:21
Posts:21
Registered:11/27/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:05/21/2007 07:33:57)
I will talk to my friend and see how hot and how long he left it in the oven. I know he does the same thing to remove and install crank bearings and others. The kit is the cheapest and easier of the two since everything is included in the kit. I compared the kit piston to the cb750 piston and the only difference was the 750 skirt was a little bit longer just eye ballin' it.
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Take care of your knees, you"ll miss them when their gone.
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Motoracer838
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14#
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Rank:none
Score:121
Posts:121
Registered:04/07/2007
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(Date Posted:06/29/2007 18:03:43)
Has anybody checked to see what the compression height is on the 750 piston and how it compares to the height of the 100/125 pistons?
Hey Johnny, how's your engine coming along?
Cheers Beers n Gearz. Joe
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Johnnymoto
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15#
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Rank:none
Score:21
Posts:21
Registered:11/27/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:06/30/2007 05:41:54)
Reply to : Motoracer838
Has anybody checked to see what the compression height is on the 750 piston and how it compares to the height of the 100/125 pistons?Hey Johnny, how's your engine coming along?Cheers Beers n Gearz. Joe
Hey Joe,
I haven't talked to anyone about the compression ratings but I know someone that I will contact for an answer. The 125 is progressing slowly but still moving forward. We're in the process of installing the new sleeve now and still on an endless search for parts. Seems like the spring and summer "honey-do" list has slowed the sl 125 project a bit but I'm still on track. Thanks moto
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Take care of your knees, you"ll miss them when their gone.
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KirkN
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16#
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Rank:none
Score:139
Posts:139
Registered:03/08/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:09/17/2007 18:36:41)
Well, my project is finally getting underway.
I've begun disassembly on my SL125 motor. The piston was stuck in the cylinder and there was some pretty heavy corrosion in the bore, but it looks like it was all "surface" corrosion. I believe it would all clean up with simple honing. Oil ring was free, but the top two rings were/are stuck in their grooves.
However, I'll be replacing the sleeve for the one that came in the big-bore kit.
So, I was holding the cylinder in my hands, and just kind of mulling it all over, and I 'thumped' the sleeve on the bench, and it moved! I was able to to just tap on the end of the sleeve with a plastic mallet and the old sleeve just came on out. I wasn't a press fit at all! I'm wondering if this was a fluke, or what? The old sleeve seems to have been size-to-size fit, at the tightest. Hmm... learn something new every day.
So, I guess it's off to a machine shop to have the aluminum bored to accept the new sleeve, and on with the rest of the tear down.
Still no cam picked out, though. Guess I'd better start looking for something. :-)
How are you guys' projects all coming along?
Kirk
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Johnnymoto
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17#
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Rank:none
Score:21
Posts:21
Registered:11/27/2006
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(Date Posted:09/19/2007 17:10:11)
Just an up date on my project. It is moving but at a pace slower than I wanted with a up coming marriage in our family, dad's moto projects are pushed down on the "must do" list for now. I have the 150 sleeved cylinder home now, so I can get to the heart of the project now. I removed the side covers and the clutch, disassemblied and cleaned it , removed oil pump cover and cleaned all the goo out of it, which is just heavy duty aged sludge and metal shavings. On the other side I cleaned the mag out and the oil strainer. I grew up in the 70's with a Yamaha 60 and honda s90 and up the scale and like my stuff, riding was the most important thing and not maintance. When you remove the oil strainer, it may be the first time that it has ever been cleaned so if it is like mine it is full of junk. It is amazing how these little four strokes took all the abuse and neglect of our era and made it this far. I came across a xl175 carb,a 26mm I think, to help it the air flow . The intake end was made to fit into a rubber boot so I cut it off flush with the flange and took a file and extended the mounting holes and it bolted right up to the sl125 carb mount. Now I plan on going back and enlarging the SLcarb mount intake tube to match the xl175 carb then I'm sure there will be soon trial and error testing on proper jetting . You can go to the two piece xl model heads for better valve air flow but under ahrma rules they are not allowed. I removed the air box and plan on using a clamp-on type air filter. I made a small battery box for under the center of seat and moved the coil in there also but I will probably remount the coil where the horn was located. Moving the coil frees up room for more tank options. I have a 78 yz 125 plastic tank sitting there now but it may change. For now I have a TL 125 header pipe on it but I plan on opening up the exhaust hole so I may go to an atc185 header pipe I have here also to increase the flow. Yesterday I mounted a TL125 rear wheel on it with a 4.10 knobby and I'm looking for a tl125 front wheel now . If anyone has a spare tl125 front wheel please let me know. I read where by removing the steel rims you can save 2.5 pounds per wheel, which on a small bike helps alot. I also plan on changing the seat by using a lighter foam and maybe reshaping it. The best hop up info I found has came from the xl page here at and www.oldrice.com. The articles -Ultimate 125's, More thunder for your 100-125's and Build your own 125 thumper are full of hop up tips from that time period that have fallen through the cracks after the 2 strokes took over mx in the early 70's. All racers seem to have some secret tips but there is some good stuff in these old articles. I picked up on some small details, just like removing one of the two springs on the spark advance to allow the engine to rev alittle quicker. Maybe when we all get finished(??) we can post some of the details here. I'm basically a 2 stroke low maintenance rider of the 70's, so I was suprised how this simple big bore project has grown to a ground up build. Another good site for this info is in the UK at it http://www.kaila.net/tl125/tl125bigbore.html (copy and paste this url) is mainly TL but it has some good engine info and a message board. You can search google images for mud turtle racing sl125 and you may find a picture of one of the best sl's around. I think it is in a penton 125 frame. It is clean and fast. I know this post is long but I just wanted to pass on any info I could to anybody else that is or maybe building a sl125 in the future.
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Take care of your knees, you"ll miss them when their gone.
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KirkN
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18#
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Rank:none
Score:139
Posts:139
Registered:03/08/2007
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(Date Posted:09/20/2007 00:08:22)
Hey, Johnny, great news on your progress! Had to laugh about the changing priorities - seems like just about anything at all can move dad's priorities down the list... :-)
Yours is the very first post of any kind on any of 3 or 4 different forums to positively tell me that the two-piece heads will interchange with the earlier one-piece heads - thanks! In my case, I'm not going to be using the bike in any sanctioned class, I'm just looking to hot-rod the engine for occasional woods use and street use. I knew that the XL125's came with bigger valves than the SL's, but until your confirmation about the 2-piece interchangability, I've been left trying to seek out heads of only one or two year's worth ('74 and '75) to use. Pretty hard to come by!
I think the 26mm carb will be the better choice, esp. for the 150cc. On Thumpertalk.com, there are a lot of hot-rodders that build up the more modern machines (Honda XR & CR-F's, Yamaha TTR's, Kawi KLX's), and they seem to use carbs in the 26 - 28mm range for their big-bore buildups. I picked up a 24mm carb from ebay for my own project, but this is what the mid-70s XL125's came with stock, so although it's bigger than the stock SL's 22mm, it's probably gonna be a bit small for my 150cc final product. We'll see.
I'll probably wind up with a Megacycle cam of one version or another. They currently offer a 'mild' cam that doesn't require any piston mods nor the use of different springs, which is good, because, apparently, 'race' springs for the 1-piece heads are no longer available. They also have a slightly hotter cam that mentions needing different springs. I'm wondering if better springs ARE available for the 2-piece heads, if I should happen to come up with a 2-piece head to use. Hmmmm....... I guess I'll still have to dig a bit to come up with my final head / cam combo.
Keep up the good work, and keep us posted!
Kirk
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Johnnymoto
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19#
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Rank:none
Score:21
Posts:21
Registered:11/27/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:09/20/2007 03:03:15)
Thanks for the reply. I will have to look at the cam choices also. I want to stay with a good mid range cam and one that is easy on the motor. I do not want to over stress the motor with a jacked up cam and valve work. I just want a dependable little rod I can ride every once in a while and after all the work involved I don't want to trash it out. I'm sure with my limited mx speed I won't hurt the motor a bit. I did pick up a set of xl125 forks, with the elsinore type off set axle just to try sometimes. They are not ahrma legal but I just wanted to see if there is difference in handling between them and the stock sl forks. Let me know how your project is progressing and if you have any luck with the two piece head. John
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Take care of your knees, you"ll miss them when their gone.
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KirkN
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20#
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Rank:none
Score:139
Posts:139
Registered:03/08/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:09/27/2007 21:50:13)
Well, I just won a 26mm XL175 carb, so now I should be good to go on the carb setup, too.
Slow but sure...
Kirk
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Johnnymoto
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21#
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Rank:none
Score:21
Posts:21
Registered:11/27/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:09/27/2007 23:50:03)
Good deal kirk. Keep me posted on on your jetting progress. moto
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Take care of your knees, you"ll miss them when their gone.
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Motoracer838
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22#
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Rank:none
Score:121
Posts:121
Registered:04/07/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:10/20/2007 18:05:56)
Johnny; I got your pm. did you get mine?
Joe
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Johnnymoto
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23#
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Rank:none
Score:21
Posts:21
Registered:11/27/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:10/21/2007 16:24:00)
Joe, I did not receive your pm. You might try again or email me at the address in my profile. moto
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Take care of your knees, you"ll miss them when their gone.
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Johnnymoto
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24#
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Rank:none
Score:21
Posts:21
Registered:11/27/2006
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:10/21/2007 16:45:22)
I was ready to reinstall the clutch and stuff when I came across a 71-72 cb100 bottom end, so now the plan is to test out the replys concerning installing a cb100 trans in the sl125 cases. I need to replace the kickstart shaft anyway. I'll keep you posted. moto
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Take care of your knees, you"ll miss them when their gone.
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Motoracer838
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25#
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Rank:none
Score:121
Posts:121
Registered:04/07/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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RE:1971 SL125 -150cc big bore-help
(Date Posted:12/09/2007 12:37:18)
Hey Johnny, any progress? Joe
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is_aimoo_guest
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26#
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Registered:11/07/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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RE:1971 SL125 -150cc big bore-help
(Date Posted:12/13/2007 21:06:55)
A little bit of progress is being made. I did get the cb100 transmission in it, the bottom end bolted up , the clutch side stuff on, side cover installed and replaced all case screws with allen head screws. I did pickup a TL125 front wheel to go with the TL rear. The next phase is getting new valves so I can replace the complete top end. I thought I would have some slack time this winter but it has been running wide open, so I just try to do one thing at a time on the project. Hope ya'll have happy holiday season and stay in touch . Thanks moto
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KirkN
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27#
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Rank:none
Score:139
Posts:139
Registered:03/08/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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RE:1971 SL125 -150cc big bore-help
(Date Posted:12/20/2007 09:00:29)
Got my 150cc kit installed. Here's a shot of the 125cc liner sliding out, plus the parts that came in the kit. 
Here's the finished product. Obviously black. Whole motor will be black, with polished case covers and polished other bits. 
And, a look at the top. New sleeve, new piston, liner honed for final fit. Now, I just need to 'do' the head, including buying a cam and finish up the reass'y. 
The project inches along... Kirk
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KirkN
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28#
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Rank:none
Score:139
Posts:139
Registered:03/08/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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RE:1971 SL125 -150cc big bore-help
(Date Posted:01/02/2008 14:50:37)
The project chugs along... Got the bottom end together and cleaned up. All looked good, and I installed new clutch plates. Have a new timing chain & tensioners. Got a 26mm carb from an XL175 and it's rebuilt and ready to go. Picked up a '77 2-piece head from this yere board and when it arrives, it'll get cleaned up, maybe ports cleaned up, etc. and a new cam & springs from Megacycle. 
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Motoracer838
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29#
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Rank:none
Score:121
Posts:121
Registered:04/07/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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RE:1971 SL125 -150cc big bore-help
(Date Posted:01/03/2008 13:14:32)
Looking good, your going to love the new head, just a reminder, check your valve to piston clearances during assembly. DON'T ASSUME the valve pocets are deep enough, it would really suck to put it together and bend a valve the first time you turn it over. Cheers Beers n Gearz. Joe
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KirkN
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30#
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Rank:none
Score:139
Posts:139
Registered:03/08/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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RE:1971 SL125 -150cc big bore-help
(Date Posted:01/03/2008 13:59:17)
Thanks, Joe. The head showed up yesterday. Woo Hoo! Bigger valves; MUCH bigger ports; better cam & spring selection! I'm stoked! Thanks, Kirk
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